Curse

Firax · Feb 28, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I roleplay. I like it. It's something I do.

However, having said that, I would never roleplay on GW. Too many players to properly RP. If you want to roleplay, go buy Neverwinter Nights, or wait for NWN 2 or Dragon's Age. Much more intuitive to role playing. If you have NWN ... I can show you a few really good PWs. (Seriously. PM me.)

GW just isn't the right kind of game for RP, it holds your hand too much.

~Firax

Vaelin · Feb 28, 2005, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firax

GW just isn't the right kind of game for RP, it holds your hand too much.

~Firax

I disagree. Although I think NWN is geared a little more toward roleplaying, I think there is still great potential to do so in GW as well. I've played NWN for 3 years, and although it is a great game, very little new content has been added and tilesets are very limiting.

I don't think roleplaying can be determined just from the type of game you are playing. Sure GW is a little more hack and slash, but roleplaying is what you make of it. If you play with a large group of like minded people the possibilities are endless. Some of the best role playing I've participated in was between the players with no GM intervention.

I just feel that since GW is trying to cater to many different play-styles, then they should add in ways to enhance both styles. That way if your main focus is PVP, then go for it, but if you are interested in role-play, then steps should be taken to enhance that style of play as well.

Vaelin

Lunarhound · Mar 01, 2005, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaelin

I just feel that since GW is trying to cater to many different play-styles, then they should add in ways to enhance both styles. That way if your main focus is PVP, then go for it, but if you are interested in role-play, then steps should be taken to enhance that style of play as well.

I feel the same way. There are going to be people who want to roleplay here, regardless of whether everyone feels it's the right sort of game for it or not, so why not implement a few things to facilitate that play style?

It's my opinion that there is quite a bit of roleplaying potential in Guild Wars. No, it's not nearly as free form as pen and paper gaming, but I don't necessarily adhere to the idea that good roleplaying has to be based on how many choices you have. Good roleplaying is about how you work with the material you're given to immerse yourself in a fictional persona or setting. While, on one hand, GW's storyline may have us more or less "on rails" once a new chapter's released, we can grab the story we're given and play it out, In Character, to the best of our abilities. An ongoing storyline in an ever-evolving world that actually changes and responds to what we do has incredible potential. You simply have to adopt a roleplaying method that's a bit more reactive than proactive. It may not be to every RPer's taste, and that's fine, but good roleplaying is definately possible.

Firax · Mar 01, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

We interrupt this regular scheduled post for an outburst:

Quote:

I've played NWN for 3 years, and although it is a great game, very little new content has been added and tile sets are very limiting.

Very little new content? VERY little NEW content?! O.O Are we playing the same NWN here? The community for NWN the biggest thing I've every SEEN, you can get a hakpack for practically anything you've ever DREAMED of. And some of the fan made mods seriously kick ass.

Back to our regularly scheduled post.

Quote:

I don't think roleplaying can be determined just from the type of game you are playing. Sure GW is a little more hack and slash, but roleplaying is what you make of it. If you play with a large group of like minded people the possibilities are endless. Some of the best role playing I've participated in was between the players with no GM intervention.

So there is not misunderstandings, I completely agree with this part however...

Quote:

No, it's not nearly as free form as pen and paper gaming, but I don't necessarily adhere to the idea that good roleplaying has to be based on how many choices you have.

I disagree. Roleplaying lives and dies on the very fact that you DO indeed have choices. The more the better. When you don't have choices, every character becomes a shadow caster by the Vision of the Main Character as seen by the Developers. It essentially forces you into a plot role - In Single player, this is fine since it's only you... But when EVERYONE is a shadow of the Vision, it becomes nigh impossible to tell the difference between characters. And even if you try to beak the Vision, the plot will force you back into the Vision. This kind of thing doesn't bode well for RP.

Quote:

An ongoing storyline in an ever-evolving world that actually changes and responds to what we do has incredible potential.

While I agree with ever-evolving... It doesn't respond to what we do, as the little people, but to what We do, the collective groups of many little people unknowingly moving, ultimately, towards the same goal.

Quote:

While, on one hand, GW's storyline may have us more or less "on rails" once a new chapter's released, we can grab the story we're given and play it out, In Character, to the best of our abilities.

Yes. To the best of out abilities. This comes back to being forced into The Vision.

Quote:

You simply have to adopt a roleplaying method that's a bit more reactive than proactive. It may not be to every RPer's taste, and that's fine, but good roleplaying is definitely possible.

Yes, but... Isn't RPing all about proactivity at one point or another? Even if you play a recluse, you the player still need to be proactive to get into the character in the first place. I would respectfully disagree with you - Proactivity is to Roleplay what oxygen is to flame.

~Firax

Lunarhound · Mar 01, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firax

Yes, but... Isn't RPing all about proactivity at one point or another? Even if you play a recluse, you the player still need to be proactive to get into the character in the first place. I would respectfully disagree with you - Proactivity is to Roleplay what oxygen is to flame.

I simply can't agree here. While a certain amonut of proactivity is always required, the availability of limitless choices is not. I've seen too much evidence to the contrary. I've seen and experienced some amazing roleplay in worlds such as DAoC or World of Warcraft, where extremely proactive behaviour is simply not possible, as the world is almost completely static. Nothing can change unless the developers want it to. The goblins will always be attacking this city, no matter how many people complete the quest to turn them back, and Atlantis will always have "just been discovered". Some roleplayers simply can't thrive in an enviroment like this, and that's understandable, but it doesn't mean that good roleplaying can't take place. You ignore the inconsistencies and make do with what you have. Having plenty of options definately makes things far more interesting, but the lack of them doesn't make good RP impossible.

In my view, Guild Wars is a step up from games like DAoC and WoW in terms of roleplaying potential. Instead of a completely static world where things are added sometimes but nothing really changes, you have a world with an evolving story. This and heavy instancing even lets us pretend to be heroes who matter, if we want to. Things are added and things change. Perhaps the story runs more or less on rails, but there's a story nonetheless and, while we may not really be the ones moving it, we can pretend to be, if we're willing to slip in character and make an effort.

A game of endless choices would make the best roleplaying enviroment, no question there. But it's not the only enviroment in which good RP can flourish. In the end, I simply think of roleplaying as being "In Character". Reacting as if you're actually in the fictional world your character inhabits. I can do that quite well whether I really have a choice in the way things turn out or not. I've been doing it for years now, as have my friends and guildmates. I'm definately not trying to say that GW is the best enviroment for RP, but it does have potential for those who want to take advantage of it and can live with the limitations. That being the case, I think some features to accomodate roleplaying wouldn't be at all out of place.

Firax · Mar 01, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Well, we seem to have reached an impasse then: I cannot sway you to my side, and you cannot sway me (at least not with the arguments you and I have present thus far) .

However, some things to consider:

How do you explain RPingly:

1. Repeating the same Mission, in which everyone is doing the same thing.

2. Instant map travel. How come when you walk you get attacked by creatures but when you use the map (Which RPingly is exactly same as walking) and don't get attacked?

3. Getting to the Guild Hall or the Arena. Loin's Arc doesn't have a port, and has all of 2 ships. It would cost a fortune.

4. Going back to Loin's Arc over and over even after you are deemed a rebel. And similar plot holes.

And why do you need special features geared towards you when you seem to using your imagination so fully already to fill in these holes for your character(s)?

Let it be known that I'm not completely against RPing in GW... I'm slowly writing a fanfic starring 2 of my characters. But in writing it I have striped many of the game's elements out from the World elements. They wear rings, but no SoCs, instead they find charms on enemies. No insta travel. Any cities thet visit will be cities... with people (My biggest gripe with GW is the cities look like very pretty outposts, not cities at all).

~Firax

Lunarhound · Mar 01, 2005, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firax

Well, we seem to have reached an impasse then: I cannot sway you to my side, and you cannot sway me (at least not with the arguments you and I have present thus far) .

However, some things to consider:

How do you explain RPingly:

1. Repeating the same Mission, in which everyone is doing the same thing.

2. Instant map travel. How come when you walk you get attacked by creatures but when you use the map (Which RPingly is exactly same as walking) and don't get attacked?

3. Getting to the Guild Hall or the Arena. Loin's Arc doesn't have a port, and has all of 2 ships. It would cost a fortune.

4. Going back to Loin's Arc over and over even after you are deemed a rebel. And similar plot holes.

I don't. And I don't need to. I deal with the incongruities, and work with them as best I can.

When repeating missions, I either act as if I haven't done it before, or don't roleplay in that particular quest, depending on the preferences of everyone in the group.

In the case of instant map travel, I don't see the need to explain anything at all. If your party uses instant travel to get to a city, you simply act as if you've traveled there normally. If you travel there seperately from your party, they simply act as if you've left. Nothing incredibly difficult about that. So your avatar has suddenly vanished... So what? Suspend disbelief for a moment.

Getting to the guild hall and arena? Costs associated? Who cares? Again, simply suspend disbelief. Skirt the incongruities as best you can or, if you prefer, make something up.

Again, I'm not denying that GW isn't the ideal game for the world's most perfect roleplaying experience. But you seem to be of the opinion that good RP can't flourish at all unless everything fits together perfectly, like a jigsaw puzzle and the player is provided with limitless options. Not only does it exist, I've been participating in it for years. Yes, there are things that are difficult to explain IC. So what? You deal with them, and ingore them when you can, concentrating on the things that really matter.

As for my willingness to suspend disbelief negating the need for any roleplaying features, that's silly. I may be willing to make allowances where I have to, because of how the game is designed, but that doesn't mean that I can't or shouldn't suggest features that I feel would aid and enhance the roleplaying experience. Especially when they're as simple as adding a new, slightly modified type of chat channel in town.

Vaelin · Mar 01, 2005, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firax

Very little new content? VERY little NEW content?! O.O Are we playing the same NWN here? The community for NWN the biggest thing I've every SEEN, you can get a hakpack for practically anything you've ever DREAMED of. And some of the fan made mods seriously kick ass.

Yes we are playing the same game, but all the "community" content I've seen isn't up to par with what the developers have done. Also I play on a 56k modem so I really don't have the time to wait three days to download a hak that is 70Mb so I can get content that should have been in the game to begin with (believe me if DSL or cable modems were available in my area I would be the first to jump at the offer....but it isn't an option where I live).

I don't necessarily think that to roleplay you need full reign of all the content to still be imaginative and come up with a good story line. In fact, I think it helps to have an underlying story that allows you to focus the main purpose of your character in the first place. The roleplay comes from the detailed histories and relationships you create for your character. Where they came from? Who their family was? Why are they in Ascalon? Were they born here, or did they travel from a far off land to aid the people in their struggle against the Charr?

Sure there may be inconsistencies, such as having to repeat the same mission, but to me it isn't any different then having a roleplay character in another MMORPG who camps a certain monster not because of role play reasons, but because it gives the best XP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firax

And why do you need special features geared towards you when you seem to using your imagination so fully already to fill in these holes for your character(s)?

The only special feature I think needs to be added is a way to talk to people only in your immediate vicinity, while filtering out the rabble that you don't want to hear. Personally I don't need anyone to help me roleplay, but what I do need is a method that allows me to roleplay more effectively. The system that is set up presently (the area wide chat) makes it virtually impossible to accomplish something as simple as having an "In Character Conversation." Using my imagination isn't the problem, the problem stems from the fact that I can't speak to someone else without having 50 messages about buying/trading items, or 50 dance emotes by some bored 12 year olds, or the chat window being filled by LEWT, I PWN JU, LVL, LOLOL, etc. Simply impossible to carry on a roleplay discussion with this in the background. A filter or a separate roleplay tab would eliminate this problem and make things more enjoyable for both play styles.

Vaelin

Aladdar · Mar 01, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

When I used to play in rp guilds in EQ and DAoC we pretty much created our own content around what was happening in the world. My only complaing about rp in guildwars is that my normal character I play would have told off Prince Rurik at one point and had a long interaction with him had this been pen and paper. I'm not given options like that. Yes, things can still be done and truth be told I'd love to try them with anyone who wants to.

It just kind of kills my immersion when it's in a video game like this. Is it impossible, certainly not, just a little tougher.

Mumblyfish · Mar 01, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aladdar

y only complaing about rp in guildwars is that my normal character I play would have told off Prince Rurik at one point and had a long interaction with him had this been pen and paper. I'm not given options like that. Yes, things can still be done and truth be told I'd love to try them with anyone who wants to.

It's not ideal, but you can just use your imagination to circumvent that. If you're not the party leader, you're never shown talking, and then there's the gap between when the end-mission cutscene and the next mission which is just a blank slate you can fill in yourself. Just because you get dragged along with Rurik, doesn't mean your character has to believe in him (I know mine doesn't). In fact, there's nothing stopping you from giving the brat a seeing-to during the travel from the Wall to Fort Ranik.

Avatin · Mar 02, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaelin

The only special feature I think needs to be added is a way to talk to people only in your immediate vicinity, while filtering out the rabble that you don't want to hear. Personally I don't need anyone to help me roleplay, but what I do need is a method that allows me to roleplay more effectively. The system that is set up presently (the area wide chat) makes it virtually impossible to accomplish something as simple as having an "In Character Conversation." Using my imagination isn't the problem, the problem stems from the fact that I can't speak to someone else without having 50 messages about buying/trading items, or 50 dance emotes by some bored 12 year olds, or the chat window being filled by LEWT, I PWN JU, LVL, LOLOL, etc. Simply impossible to carry on a roleplay discussion with this in the background. A filter or a separate roleplay tab would eliminate this problem and make things more enjoyable for both play styles.
Vaelin

There is a difference between 'text over head', 'RP tab' and 'filter' in my mind. The problem of roleplay tab or filter is that you may miss an important message sent by other people in town. For example : "Hey guys, les patriotes, a guild from Quebec, is the new leader in the guild ladder!!!! We got to kill those french fried chickens!!!"

(I am a patriotes member) Even if I RP, I may be interested in keeping an eye on 'all' tab. This is why I would prefer a 'text over head' feature than a RP tab or any kind of filter thing.

Who cares about a over-crowded-spammed 'all' chat if you talk with your RP gang with 'text over head', sitting around somewhere in Lion's Arch? Just avoid reading the chat and keep your attention focussed on the text appearing over your buddies heads.

/& This is an opinion, not objective truth.

Lunarhound · Mar 02, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Yes, if you're in a seperate RP chat mode that blocks "All" you may miss messages you'd want to see. That's part of the point.

If you really want to see those messages, then you'll have to choose not to RP. If people are forced to choose between the two, then there's a much greater chance that only people who want to roleplay will enter the RP chat. It should be limited for that very reason. If you can keep it turned on and still see "All" it destroys part of the purpose.

Trade, guild, etc. should remain enabled, I think. People should still be able to do business while roleplaying. The "All" channel, however, is not necessary. A choice between the two is perfectly acceptable.